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Socio- Political/Economical Corner

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Storm, Nov 14, 2016.

  1. Storm

    Storm Clan Member
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    Yeah this stuff comes from everywhere. I have nothing against women making good money, but last thing we need is another system of wealth transfer, at least in this country. Or some regulation to interfare the market mechanism of salaries.


    I remember I saw once Donald Trump answering audience questions at his campaign trail, and this woman did ask him about this matter (it was a trap ! ) ;

     
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  2. Maestro

    Maestro Sexy And Deadly Joker
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    Yes Trump just manhandled that question! 100% right! No words amazing!
     
  3. punisher

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    Even tho that bitch is annoying af, he didn't answer her question.
     
  4. Storm

    Storm Clan Member
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    ''You're going to make the same if you do as good a job'' , he said is twice, are you blind?
     
  5. Maestro

    Maestro Sexy And Deadly Joker
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    lol deaf :D
     
  6. punisher

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    Its not a yes or a no, companies can work around that by stating that you arent doing as good as men, and just keep paying em less.

    Yes, women get paid the same amount per hour, or no they do not.

    You're going to make the same if you do as good a job' is loopholes everywhere, like it is already.
     
  7. punisher

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    Not discussing it any further, as this is ur section, and what i said above is my view. :d
     
  8. Maestro

    Maestro Sexy And Deadly Joker
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    Well she asked a yes or no question to him right? So it is a yes or no question.

    Now concerning the other part. I understand what you mean, but with women you get many hidden fees when you hire them ESPECIALLY if we are talking about that a woman can become pregnant and all of that is payed for by her employer. So basically this means that they can get smaller pay for objective reasons as well which is rational.

    But the other side to it is that generally if women are not as skilled as men then they get lower pay that's it. Discrimination would be if a woman for doing exact same job (lets exclude pregnancy clause from contracts) gets lower pay than a man this is a discrimination and Trump would say it's not acceptable and I also say that. It's not acceptable for sure! And this would be a discrimination and worthy of a lawsuit. But her question was completely different puni.
     
  9. Maestro

    Maestro Sexy And Deadly Joker
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    Storm also take a look at this vid...

     
  10. Maestro

    Maestro Sexy And Deadly Joker
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    This is your section too anyday bro
     
  11. Storm

    Storm Clan Member
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    First of, its not governments job to degree who makes how much doing what and when. Thats why there is market mechanism.

    You dont get it, it doesnt matter if you are man or women for the job. Only thing that matters is your skills for that particular job, and that reflects on your pay ( what Trump meant ). Another factor is the type of work you do, some fields have better pay than others.

    One more thing, many women work in high pay jobs, this has nothing to do with their sex, but only their credentials for the said job. Now lets say woman makes 100k in year. Some man hears about this, and thinks '' wow, how can she make that much of money, I make much less, this is discrimination, I need to vote for politicians who will tax or make it illegal for her to make that much! '' What you think will happen? Little bit homework for you.
     
  12. Storm

    Storm Clan Member
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    This is big problem in Finland, my country has some most strict labor laws in the world ( favors employee over employer 99% ). Basically its hard to get rid of bad workers, since they might sue you for some pretext. Women getting pregnant is a big problem also, since when they get pregnant while working for you, you need to pay them for that time. This might seem like right thing to happen at first clance. But its a big problem at labor markets ( perhaps surprisingly for women most of all). This is because many small business doesnt want to hire young women in fear of them getting pregnant, so they hire men instead, this means its harder for many women to get jobs in certain size companies.

    Its not so bad at very big companies who can afford it, but with small business ( employs several people at best ) it can be killing blow for one of the women employees getting pregnant. How many times Iv heard about this, small business hire new women employee and then several months later she gets pregnant and the employer cannot afford it and have to quit the business. Result = employer looses the business and the employee gets the baby and after that look for new job. Its a fucking mess. A Big Problem in this country.

    One of countless examples I could give you what happens when government sticks their regulations everywhere. Its Anti business for all in the long run.
     
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  13. Storm

    Storm Clan Member
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    Heh, i got now some mood and time to continue this huge but very interesting discussion :), so here we go.

    Sure I agree with many of your main points you made about the economy here, but I will mainly address now the points that I disagree with, to make things interesting. We share mostly same view about economy but there are some differences also. I have to response in slices, since your original post was quite long and full of things to think. Also to help you understand my points.

    First of, you cannot look economy from simplified point of view since there are many factors affecting the issues you did bring up. I tried to think it in simple way, but then I did notice whole lot of things that you didint bring up when talking about overall economics.

    Having economy with downward product prices and rising paychecks is not always sign of healthy economy ( If you meant it this way ) I give you example; In Finland salaries has risen since the 90's and they did keep rising during and after 08's crash, even when finnish economy was hit hard by recession, now how can this be? You are not so productive anymore and still the paychecks get up? This is because of the factors outside of the market mechanism, like artificial paycheck rises, mainly that of public sector wages. Politicians and officials simply decide to raise their wages and those of public sector , not worrying about overall economic situation. This brings the medium of income up in whole country, even if its done with high taxation and borrowing. But of course this road ends sooner or later in real world since its the road of self destruction for economy as whole.

    Not even the lower product prices are necessary sign of good economy ( Even if you didint quite mean it this way I think ), since if the said cheaper and better/or as of good product is made in different country than where you are living, this means that wealth is escaping from your area - to this area of productivity. So you might enjoy cheaper prices, but it doesnt help if your income ( private or economic area ) is going down also.

    Basically factors that makes good economy are following;

    I rank them from most important to least important

    1. Positive trade balance (between you country/or area and outside world ). People often overlook this, but if you have negative trade balance, likes most western countries have these days ( including my country ) this means the wealth is moving to other area, and leaving behind only debt. But it really makes sense, even from point of individual, if you spend more than you make you are in trouble sooner or later. Same is with countries, even if you are doing well personally in such country, the taxes and regulations will soon bring you down from result of this wealth transfer. We can call this also productivity since positive trade balance means productivity of course and in competitive manner no less.

    2. Low taxes. This enables the productivity to happen from its part. When you are in high tax country, this means your area is not doing good in terms of competition since they need to transfer wealth inside the said area with force ( because many or most of the people are not productive ). Basically high taxes are sign of rotten economy ( even if there are countries that do well, but they still do high taxes for number of reasons). Also high tax country doesnt attract investments or help with productivity inside the said country like low tax countries.

    3. Small public sector. Since its not productive in sense of selling products to the consumer. Its stated purpose is to offer services for people ''free'' but the real main purpose is to employ people, people who in most cases do not want or cannot to find employment at private sector. Since the public sector in most cases doesnt operate in market place selling products, their support can only come from 2 sources; private sector or debt. Former comes in form of taxation and as stated above, this strains the productivity of said area/country and results in lower productivity. Latter comes in form of debt, if the public sector is very big or the taxes are high already. My very personal opinion is that, tax areas ( countries ) should not take debt during time of peace, since it goes into unproductive activity and is paid back with interest from the productive activity of said country ( private sector) . This of course leads into chainreaction of ever rising debt and lesser production.

    4. Sound monetary policy. Well whomever controls it, it should be handled in way that doesnt cause too much of inflation into system. But there should be enough available to make loans for productive activity. Monetary policy in hands of politicians usually leads into big trouble since they have tendency to fund their political aims ( like public sector jobs for people ) with money printing if they have the power to do so. Printing money is not a way to prosperity as in long term. But ''printing'' money with close to zero inflation can be done without much problems but only for while, when the inflation gets into 2 % it should be stop. But this is with fiat currency. As a rule, monetary policy should be as such as to support productive activity but not consumption.

    I personally would be inclined to have so called ''sound money'' basically currency backed with something more solid like gold, or perhaps bitcoins. This would help to prevent massive debts from happening in way of holding the money ''printing'' by central banks who now have the monetary policy at their hands at western countries.

    To be continued...but who knows when?
     
  14. Maestro

    Maestro Sexy And Deadly Joker
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    Well actually there aren't any points at all which we disagree with, maybe just a bit on 4th I would say I would ideally prefer a fiat currency that would try to balance out about +2 to -2 inflation points (still the inflation is basically only statistics anyway), or like you said something like gold backing. Either way my logic of falling prices mean not falling prices from INABILITY of consumers to buy anything anymore, but ONLY because the PRODUCTION capacity has increaced. Good examples are Rockefeller Standard Oil and all rubber barons age price droppings (no matter if to take out competition or not, I am strictly talking about people purchasing power) and the same with Tech industry like mobiles, telphones computers etc. Even tho currently tech is inflationary I believe (when new products enter they still tend to try to up their price more and more), but still really good example. So basically I have nothing to add to our economical discussion, but we sure will go in more detail later. Maybe actually provide our HoPpers here with some stock or gold analysis or like real estate analysis lol. Economy is awesome.

    Now what you said about finland sure I know how much your country sucks now (pun intended). I mean you had amazing country at your hand but your politicians BLEW IT! Same with Sweden. Trust me if Norway continues in a degrading manner it does it will go down as well and our dear Helene will be soon outta job lol. But what emerged from my analysis like 1,5 years ago that Norway is actually THE MOST healthy economy at least in europe and northen america for sure!

    Now concerning other matters what is on the table? :D Btw Storm you like psychoanalysis? We could also create a topic like this :).
     
  15. Maestro

    Maestro Sexy And Deadly Joker
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    Shit also Storm forgot to mention that yes 100% correctly and nicely said about pregnancy and women. This is a HUGE problem in estonia as well. Actually nowadays it can be argued that there are even laws/situations/opportunities that even put men in an unfair position to compared to them in the marketplace. Any rational person understand that there is basically NO discrimination of women going on in USA/Europe not economically and not socially all bunch of bullcrap and propoganda.
     
  16. Storm

    Storm Clan Member
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    Just watched this epic argument between giants; Peter Joseph ( hardcore leftist--fuck I almost typed leftits :D )and Stefan Molyneux ( hardcore libertarian - not to be confused with liberalism ) ! Now this was perhaps the most intelligent discussion Iv seen for while about these huge issues.

    Peter Joseph is a smart guy ( in some utopian sense ), and likeminded people said he won this one, but I think while he had some interesting utopian arguments, he ( and his ideology ) did simply lack the proven trackrecord ( I mean what he proposed here has been tried with horrible results ), and also there was no practical examples to offer from his part ( I think his biggest fault ). But he sure was more intelligent and argumentative than your typical next door commy.

    Molyneux on the other hand, lot if silence at first, waiting his opponent to make his move and bring forth his army of arguments in the field, and when that happened he started to COUNTERBUNCH , first slowly and then more rapid, I liked it a lot ( and of course I am a libertarian myself :D ). What I like perhaps the most about Stefan, he always has these easy to understand examples to prove him right ( and most times he is imo ).

    Ok, without further delay, WHEN THE GIANTS CLASH THE WHOLE EARTH TREMBLES! :d

     
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  17. Maestro

    Maestro Sexy And Deadly Joker
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    I moved the topic man, sorry, it's because I simply made a sticky threads out of Book thread and out of this topic that you created back then socio-political corner. It's a great idea. But I renamed this just a little bit. Either way these topics are now sticky for people who want to add to some of these interesting discussions etc. I also created a history corner as I know you love it, I am not on a great level in history, but ofc I do know quite a lot still.

    P.S. to your particular post above I will reply asap!!!!
     
  18. Maestro

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  19. Storm

    Storm Clan Member
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    :D This is great! Cant believe I did miss this before !
     
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  20. Maestro

    Maestro Sexy And Deadly Joker
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    WHAHAHAHAHAHAH GREAT VID DL SENT ME :D
     

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